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Should a Kyrgyz name read Father uulu as the family? (Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу gives family уулу) #1187

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@derek73

A Kyrgyz name with no surname is written given name, father's name, uulu ("son of") or kyzy ("daughter of"): Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу. The father's name and the marker take the place a surname would. Today the marker itself reads as the family, under every setting (measured on master ccaf6ad):

Input setting given middle family patronymic
Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу default Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу ''
Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу locales.TR_AZ Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу Чолпонбай уулу
Жылдыз Таалайбек кызы locales.TR_AZ Жылдыз Таалайбек кызы Таалайбек кызы
Bekmyrza Cholponbai uulu locales.TR_AZ Bekmyrza Cholponbai uulu Cholponbai uulu

O2 (the Turkic rotation) records this as accepted: "Any other count of name words keeps its positional reading, even when that leaves the marker itself in a name field", with "Ali Ahmad oglu" [tr_az] → family="oglu" as a boundary example.

Measured (2026-11-08) on Kyrgyzstan's Jogorku Kenesh (OpenSanctions kg_jogorku_kenesh, 90 members): 4 take this shape (3 уулу, 1 кызы). The rest write a Russian-style patronymic and a surname (Равшанбек Рысбаевич Рысбаев). Kyrgyz documents allow X уулу in place of a surname, so this is how these members are officially written, not a shortened form.

Proposal, as a change to O2's Accepted clause

When: Turkic patronymic handling is active, and a name of exactly three name words ends in a standalone patronymic marker.

Then: the father's name and the marker read together as the family, as bin and its name do (rules/R9), and the patronymic view holds the same two words.

Because: with no surname, the patronymic is the family name the bearer is filed under.

"Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу"  [tr_az]  →  family="Чолпонбай уулу"
"Ali Ahmad oglu"  [tr_az]  →  family="Ahmad oglu"

Questions

  • Azerbaijani writes the same shape (Əli Cavad oğlu) when a surname is left off. Is the reading right there too, or only for Kyrgyz?
  • Should it hold without the pack? The marker words are specific to Turkic languages (uulu, kyzy, oğlu), but the default has never read them, and no corpus has been checked for the Latin spellings as other words.

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